Tips on perfecting register on the Windmill?

Hi Kitty,
Frank here again, glad to hear you have your bottom lays fixed. How about this as a suggestion to try out registration first off. Make sure your packing is perfectly flat and set to the right thickness and using something like 100 to 150 gsm stock run a single colour through the press and then run the same sheets through again for a second time. If that is good then try thicker stock and see how you get on. If you still have problems lets see the results. There are a number of possibilities, one I heard about the other week was a old chase on a later press and the chase was moving sideways. Also on your new lays are you using pins? Only use pins on the left hand lay and be careful it is not too tight on to the sheet and movibg it.
Look forward to hearing your reply.

It looks like you are running 40pt Wild ?. I assume you have changed both setting on the press for running with guides. I assume you are gripping the short side with the long side against the lay guides. From the photo I think you have two issues. One is with the lay guides the other is packing. I use only brass guides. When I start any job I adjust the lay bar adjustment screws to the middle. I screw them all the way down then back up 2 - 3 half turns. I also set the head stop to the middle. If the head stop is backed in or backed out to much it may cause pop when registering. I leave the settings alone and move my photopolymer plate to get it straight on my first color. I make sure the fence adjust is in the middle. I found early on after working with guides that one of my lay guides was twisted. I also put new grippers bars on. I replaced both with new brass guides and the issues went away. Make sure to use a pin on the back guide that is tall enough to insure the paper goes under the pin and thus stays in the guide. Make sure your left side paper fence is not to far in. You do not want the paper to need to fall to far to to reach the lay guides. Make sure you are getting a good clean succer pickup. Your dont want the press to have to reregister the sheet from a bad pickup. Since the grippers let go of the paper, it drops into the guides and is then pushed to register packing is important. Check to see if you have clearance between the packing and the sheet at the point the grippers let go. You can check it by feeding a sheet in and turning feed off. Slowly bump the feed until your bed is also most closed and you find the point the gripper opens, it will match the point on the cam of the main housing. Take flash light and shine it down along the gripper. If you are over packed as the gipper opens it will cause the sheet to be pushed against the gipper bar and not allow it the freedom to drop into place as it drags on the gripper bar(I saw this possibly happening on you samples) but it can be the prior noted issues as well. In closing, I can run perfect register 2 color all day long and then die cut it as well. Try your project again and let it know how it works

Repeating what has been posted but abridged.
Print 10 - 20 sheets. Put them back in and imprint on them. They should look perfect except darker in color.
Use brass lays, not the nickel ones (for beginners).
With the press open, pull up on the side lay and set your sheet onto it with the left lay as far back as possible.

As for loading the paper, slide the left paper standard all the way to the left and I then move it 3-4 mm right.
Of my two machines, one does better (perfect) using cheaters.

kittyj-

Your JPEG photo link doesn’t work.
Post a couple photos of the way you have the brass lays set up, with and without your paper/card stock in place on them.

This will help getting you squared away.

I run multiple colors on all kinds of stock and envelopes in perfect register routinely on the 10x15 Heidelberg without issues.

Michael
www.nickel-plate-press.com

I just looked in the two manuals I have but couldn’t find reference to the rubber strip on the two gripper bars which hold the sheet in position when held by the grippers. If that strip is missing or in bad shape, then I’ve found that the paper will tend to have difficulty in maintaining register.

Fritz,
Page 110 in the instruction manual.
” replacing gripper rubber pads for 10 x 15 and 13 x18”

Another thing to check is the shape of the grippers. If the springs are broken and or rubber is worn you may get an inconsistent grab both at both at the pickup and regrap of the bar after register

Here are my tips on maintaining press registration. The first color down is the most important. If the first pass doesn’t register, nothing else will. Can you see the corner marks on my print? They run off the bottom and the side of the press sheet. They are called “sheet run marks”. I can take a stack and see if ANY have misregistered. I recently ran over 200,000 with less than .05% waste., 2 colors, and die-cut. My rule is that if 1 sheet out of a hundred is out, I have a problem to fix. If it’s 1 out of a thousand, I need to know why, even if I cannot fix it.
I always set up on a similar sheet, but not the good stuff; I cannot waste good stock.
As far as replacing rubber on a gripper, knock yourself out… I buy my replacement grippers on eBay for about $70. I haven’t had to for at least 15 years, but I keep a spare just in case.
Best wishes from someone who has been there… BP
PS Running too slow can cause register problems too. I run an 8 point stock at 2,800 iph with no problems
PPS I’ve run windmills since 1973. I bought my first one from Carl Green at Quadco Printing in Chico, CA.

sheet run marks.jpg

Hi everyone!

Thank you for taking your time to type all of these specific tips. I shall try them out soon and report back! I’m just waiting on a fresh batch of paper stock.

Hi everyone,

Had an unsuccessful print day. All my prints are still not consistent. It’s frustrating since they’re all random inconsistencies—at least if they were off one way but in a consistent way, I can figure it out.

Images here:

https://imgur.com/7dlUTAt

https://imgur.com/4Oe5q0W (vertical register)

https://imgur.com/3n1wZHz (horizontal)

Here’s a photo of how my prints lay on the bottom guides: https://imgur.com/K5LnzsO

I would use the clutch lever to inch my way through the process, watching how the grippers would pick a sheet up and drop it on the lay guides. So far, it consistently works (that it always falls on the guides and secured by the pin).

I checked my side guide, and realized it was loose. After tightening the bolt and playing with how far the screw is, I noticed a bump on the side (see photo: https://imgur.com/Wvnrp0l). Is this how it’s supposed to be?

Because of that, I searched how to lessen the bite of the grippers and found out about adding cheaters, so I did using electrical tape (see photo: https://imgur.com/mi80WuF). It made a difference but did not do any good.

After all of these changes, my prints’ consistencies in terms of register are still far off from each other.

- I tried Frank’s suggestion with the packing, going so far as not having packing at all. Misregister still happened.
- I’ve also made sure my left paper fence by the feed table is on the far left to avoid it dropping from a tall height (and hence bouncing). Still not consistent.
- I’m running not on the lowest but in a moderate speed (around 3 turns from the lowest). I’ve experimented with that and running in the lowest. Still no consistency in either speeds.
- It’s humid where I live so maybe static isn’t the problem?
- I’ve read adding rubber strips/tape to the grippers can help. But I don’t understand how it can make any difference if the gripper will let go of the sheet anyway, letting gravity do its thing and letting the sheet lay on the guides.

I know my press is really old and in bad shape but I don’t want to give up on it. Hope you guys can still help me!

Couple things to try and look at. Double check both settings for running to guides are correct. There is a knob that allows the layguide to move up and down be sure the locking pin is in tight. Keep it oiled to move freely. Make sure to change the setting up at the gripper control arm to guides. At the base of the feed tray left side at the bottom there is a tab and a screw that holds it in place. Lossening the screw and the tab slides for what type of printing you are doing. The picture of you lay guides does not look correct. My front brass guide has a lip and a hole in the center. I never use a pin there only on the back guide. It is hard to tell but I am wondering if those are actually a brass front and back guide as they dont look correct. In my case I would never use cheeters when running to guides. Make sure the haed stop in in the center and oil oil it so th ehead stop moves up and down.

Also on the photo it looks like the bottom guides are in contact with the sheet before the gripper lets go. There needs to be 3/16 or os gap. If not it will not register and may be pushed out of the gripper. As the gripper lets go the sheet it needs a small space to drop as the lay bar comes up to meet it and pushes the sheet up to the head stop, the press then re grips the now registered sheet prints it an delivers it. I always set my layguide and head stop to the middle of the screws adjustment. Also be careful not to lessen the bite and bite grip to much or the sheet may slip out as it registers before it is ready. The press cannot always correct an out of control sheet. Instead of the gripper stopping to open and the sheet dropping then registering and being regripped if the sheet is loose and flying into the head it may not be able to self correct in time to print in position.

I think kittyj is using nickle guides.
kitty, are your guides brass or nickle?
Verify position of the stop for the left standard (paper side guide) is correct to the nickel vs brass guide.

20250402_142106.jpg

I am inclined to think that nickle lays are being used. First thing is to change to brass and to remove the pin on the headlay side.
Have attached some pictures of the brass lays again and which side they go on.

printing with nickle lays is best left to someone well used to running a windmill.

headlay or delivery side.jpg

feed side.jpg

delivery side.jpg

Good pictures guys. I may have mentioned this before but for a couple months while working with brass guides I kept having lay issues. After relooking at the guides I found one was twisted. I replace both new and the problem went away. I don’t know what you guys do ( I see some smart names I have seen in the past) but I never use a pin on the front guide. I also saw a mention of using cheaters. I never use cheaters when registering to guides - i did think it would help, am I wrong. Kittj you have some good ideas let us know if this fixes your issues

kittyj,
I noticed in your picture “https://imgur.com/mi80WuF” I do not see any “Cat Whiskers” to keep your sheets at a consistent height when the grippers pick them up. You might be having the sheets float up to different heights for the grippers to pickup inconstantly.
Just a thought.
Jim

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for your replies!

To answer everyone’s common question: the silver guide I have was fabricated in a metal shop to look as similar as possible as the one brass guide I have. It has that lip similar to the brass guide (which I’m assuming is the main feature of the brass guide compared to a nickle guide).

Here’s a picture of what it looks like on the lay bar: https://imgur.com/lDBSjsT

The pins are from paper clips. I can’t source brass guides from where I’m from (Philippines) so I’ve been making do haha.

Anyone know where I can source brass guides and lay pins from the US or UK? Might just take the plunge despite the costly shipping.

jfitz,

What are “Cat Whiskers”? Sounds silly! But I’m assuming sheet separator? I do have it :) I think it just looks like it’s missing due to the angle of the photo.

Go over to the press on the right side below the delivery on the frame. In later years they added a tray for parts. The reason I know this is I did not see the tray for 6 month. and never knew it was there. What you have is 2 back guides, not a front and back guide. it is possible the pin in the front guide is adding to you issues but there is no way to be sure. The front guide you have now wont work without a pin, the sheet will slip over the guide.I buy my part from https://whittenburginc.com/parts/. If they cant ship to you see if they someone who canBuy a set of front and back guides. Once you get new guides, at first try only using a pin in the back guide.