Reassembling the inking disk on a C&P 10x15.
Hello, all!
I recently purchased a C&P 10x15. I’m super excited about it, but it was purchased disassembled for ease of move and the fact that it needs restored. I just completed an inventory of pieces and I’m missing a few gears that look like they belong beneath the inking plate. But..there aren’t many diagrams or informative videos online.
Would anyone have some knowledge on how those pieces would fit together? And would you be able to show picture or a video? I’m mentally trying to put this thing together in my mind, but I think I’m missing some important pieces. I missing some gears according to a parts list, but are some models assembled differently? Does the ink disk just sit in the bracket or is it supposed to move?
Any information would be greatly appreciated!
They offered both one and two piece ink disks. The two piece disks had the inner part spin one way, and the outer ring spin the other way. Most presses I have seen were originally two piece ink disks that became one piece when the rust and ink welded the disks together, and the gear that drove the inner part was removed.
Both versions have the arms shown near the end of this video that hook the ink disk and spin it with every impression.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-QSYA0p_LQ
I’ve never heard that the counter rotating ink disk was any better than the one big platter going clockwise. Maybe someone here knows why they did that. You definitely want the ink disk to spin though.
The contrarotation on the old machines was just a means of eliminating repeat marks from ink starvation when you are printing a mixture of type and solids or screens , I have a treadle with a large flat platter within which rotates a disc ,within the disc there are three smaller discs .
Luke
Not my territory, but for the inking disks with an inner disc and an outer, were all the small gears driving the plates the same? If so, a gear can be copied by a good workshop which can do small casting, or cut (milled) from steel if that is the way to go instead of cast.
I saw parts for a newspaper press made by copying castings, using sand moulds. There’s a funny story about that, a trifle too long for now. Enough to say that we learned something about the business manager and his attitudes.
Alan.
PS: The industrial area of this, my home town, has a bearing company who supply standard bearings, but if you can afford it, non-standard bearings up to nearly 9 metres diameter; perhaps that is why this area also has a 144-wheel heavy-lift trailer for transporting such loads by road. (Actually, this trailer is used for transporting large earth-moving machines, but are willing to carry anything which they can handle.) Maybe someone mills various kinds of gears? I’ll search. — Alan.
PPS: I wondered about the strange sizes marked on most standard bearings, till I was told these are the “translated” sizes, the originals being in metric measure. — Alan.
The best answer would be for you to go visit someone with a similar press and take a look at it in action. If you are any where near East Lansing, MI, come on over.
I have an 8x12 C&P with the counter rotating disks that I restored to working condition, if that’s what you have. But that’s not a necessary feature.
The ink table just sits inside the frame that holds it in place and there’s an arm on the right side that advances the ink table rotation a bit with each impression.
The diagrams at the end of this: http://users.bestweb.net/~bpress/manuals/cp_partslist.pdf should help.
@ Alan,
Getting gears made is easy, but expensive. I have experience with this for my day job; it would be cost prohibitive for my presses, especially when the counter rotating is unnecessary (although very cool…). Most of the gear manufacturers in the US seem to be concentrated within 100 miles of Cleveland. Where are you located?
@ Peter, I’ve seen an advertisement with a 3 disk option for the C&P 14.5x22. Within the large disk were two small ones, one left of center, and one right. They were advertising the ability to print two colors at once by placing one form left, and the other one right. Is that how yours is set up? Does it work?
@ Mary, Let us know where you are. It would definitely be best for you to look at another press to see how things work, and maybe get some instruction on using it. Without opening the can of worms on this site, these machines are big and dangerous and you’ll be glad you got some help in the beginning. I’ve been amazed at the helpfulness of people all over the world on this site, all of whom seem to have the same sickness I have, and I’m guessing you’ve got the bug too.
Good luck.
Thanks guys. The plate I have is just the solid, single disc, not the double, inlaid one.
@Luke I’m located in Pittsburgh. I was able to contact the guy I bought it from and he said the plate would just sit in the holder. There wasn’t any movement. He thinks the gears may have broken before he had it since he’s never seen them on the machine, but insists it works fine without. Are they necessary as long as things are structurally sound? I know it would help with even ink distribution, but its not..necessary?
Hi,
If you have the parts highlighted in color, you should have enough to turn the disk a bit automatically with each impression.
The turning disk helps ensure ink is distributed evenly on the rollers.
DiskBits.png
If you just have the solid disk, you won’t need the gears. They are only for turning the “Split”(double) disk or the illusive “Duplex” Disk which is used for printing two colors at once. I have never seen a Duplex Disk but would love to if there are any left in existence.
Ahh! Fantastic! Thank you, AnonyMouse and Michael! I’m pretty sure I have those parts, so I should be good! It’s hard to tell what parts I should have since the parts list covers a couple models.
Alan , Yes the old dear works ,its a H.S.Cropper , minerva although i am missing a chase for it and have done so for all the years it sat in store !! A victim of time and the lack of it !
As I am frequently accused of trotting out, vast amounts of hogwash, claptrap etc I consider I am well qualified to steam in with a little more??? RE SPLIT DISK etc, just with a little childlike logic, maybe!! as the word disk implies “round” as in a circle, does it not follow that a “disk” operating as 2 independant halves with NO BLEED or crossover would seem to be inoperable, resulting in the application of a square ink table, as in most flat bed presses?? IF, say at best 45% of half of a DISK were to provide the ink distribution, as 2 separate colours, with just 10% in the middle to allow for bleed between the colours, (And even that with any reciprocator or disser roller out of action, from the mythical split duct) would seem to be an improbable option. >>Which by implication would involve a SQUARE fixed ink table to give possibly, a fighting chance to get some ink(s) on to the form. BUT PLEASE if you will, take me to pieces, on line if my logic is rubbish, it will for sure help a few new ones, to be made aware of the options, for and against??? But keep in mind that PETER has shown me before, On, I believe a “Komori” running 2 separate colours, on 2 separate jobs (admittedly on litho and on the same stock) but with the distributor roller locked out, and a factory supplied lead block splitting the duct?? This was fairly standard practise on letterpress machines, from Heidelberg and Thompson Platens up to Big Cylinders. This was well known to Hot Metal Caster Ops, because after the Minders (Managers, Laterly) had made various structural modifications, (dropped em!) a few times, Ops would cast straight into the ducts, New Ones? with a ladle full of type metal. >>Might even now be worth remembering, ***with an ordinary D.I.Y. blowtorch, bean can, or similar, small amount of type metal or plumbers lead, WITH SAFETY, make your own 2 colour duct splitter. Has been known for a few duct splitters, to be made at the same time as Fishing Weights. SO I WAS TOLD!!! and then the ungrateful f***s (as in flatulence) had the audacity to complain that the mould, say, for a 2 or 3 or 4 ounce weight in lead, did not weigh in correctly in type metal. Was the fish (especially “the one that got away”) every going to complain to the Weights and measures. Mick.
Double impression Apologies
One wonders if there are any still existing…
DuplexDisk-sm.png
I think the duplex disc arrangement was for split fountain 2-color printing, either run as a work and whirl or?? imposition. A single split disk is much more common as is a disk inside of the ink disk. I do have one of these (though I took a bolt out and its been hiding for a while) and the counter rotating disk does make a measurable difference in the amount of time to ink up. It also help in using a fountain as the ink will not “drift” with the disk rotation. I should get mine running and take photos/video to demonstrate how it works.
There is a description of a rebuild (with photos) of a C&P double disk at the following link.
http://gjohanson.blogspot.com.au/2008/12/removal-and-maintenance-of-c-sp...
Malcolm
to Briar Press and others
Maybe I email too frequently, but why does my logon disappear from time to time ?
I may not be an expert, but some of my posts have drawn out others who explain (with expertise) a solution to a problem. In other words, I deliberately try to provoke an explanation, occasionally my experience causes a sidetrack to be opened, such as where there is a left-hand thread on a component of a Linotype. If you know that a thread is left-hand, it relieves a lot of frustration; ask people who have been (this-way) frustrated.
Any fool can ask a question which leads to a solution of a question.
Now, how do I retain my logon so I can show my ignorance?
The word used in Australia is “whinge”!
Alan.
P.S. Not my field, but it seems the most-frequently asked question concerns uneven inking.
Alan.
Alan, the same thing happens to me, have to log on again every so often. You don’t post too much, at least i enjoy your posts, keep them coming.
dickg
That’s OK (please, not the Australian version okay), but how? I do not like having to re-enter (re-logon) through a post which is not really related to what I am giving an opinion about. Remember that word “whinge”.
Alan.
Alan, don’t ask me “how”, i’m a linotype operator, this computor stuff is very confusing to me.
Alan, don’t ask me “how”, i’m a linotype operator, this computer stuff is very confusing to me.
dickg
Agreed! But we had to work out how to run machines on computers, even when the instruction manual (first one was Mergenthaler) had mistakes. Computers sometimes try to give us what they think we want, not what we are trying (very trying) to ask for.
We overcame some of the modern computer programs. But programs were written by humans. For example, sometimes we wanted the numeral 1 to be the narrower width than other digits, sometimes to tabulate (same width). Newspapers seem to have arranged for two differing widths for the numeral 1.
Reminds me of the trick they put over the Linotype apprentices at the afternoon daily; on the example they had to reproduce, the 3/8 was nut width, from the pi tray the matrix was mutton width, at the end of a slug, near the bottom of the tabulated work.
Yes, we even worked out how to set “multi-slug” composition of very-wide-measure, photo-set type, long paragraphs, with a staggered join near the middle of the lines (“slugs”). We wrote a program which changed the measures of the multi-slugs after each two lines; if we had done this after each/every line, the paper would have torn too easily.
Alan.
i have found a great press at a great price! this press is in a scrap yard if anyone is near Gig Harbor, Washington, please save the press from being scraped. —-ATTENTION THIS IS NOT MY LISTING ——
THE ITEM ID NUMBER IS: 380666607873
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380666607873&ssPageNa...
THANK YOU AND I’M SORRY IF ITS NOT THE RIGHT PLACE TO POST THIS.
this is another one not mine, great pice http://www.ebay.com/itm/Heidelberg-Printer-Die-Press-/271743825986?pt=LH...