Embossing on a C&P…

Can some explain the process of producing a counter die (i.e. where you have a male and female die) for embossing on a C&P? And suggestions for materials?

Better to work from a metal die vs photopolymer?

If you had some images that would be even better.

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Why isn’t anyone answering this question? I would like to know the answer too and of course an image would be GREAT

There had been a discussion recently on the LetPress listserv that provided some information as to materials and the like for making a counter die. I’ve just never seen anyone actually do this.

One of the things I’m really curious about is where does the counter die go and how do you keep it there.

I use ‘oiled’ tympan and nothing sticks to it. Some people mentioned plaster for making the counter die, but it seems like it would need to be so thin that it would never take the pressure.

I was surprised when no one wanted to answer my initial question. My thanks to kcorcorank for bringing it back up.

This is folklore that may be more interesting than useful.
I have heard of both methods, but have never seen either.
One first needs to have the die and lock it in the chase. All of the packing is removed from the tympan. Perhaps the drawsheet is replaced with a sheet of 20# paper. An old (really old) phenolic resin 78rpm phonograph record is placed in the oven (no idea at what heat) and softened. With hot mits it is placed on the draw sheet and held there some way and the press closed. Squish. You either have a counter die or a mess. I would guess the die would benefit from a coating of Pam before meeting the record.
There was a counter die forming paper and resin. The paper was about the thickness of what we used to call onionskin. I would guess about .001 or .002. I suppose the resin was in some volitile liquid. Some appropriate amount of packing was placed in the tympan to give a small bit of bite into the special sheet to be impressed. I would guess several sheets of something like 20# under the draw sheet. The resin treated sheet was placed on the tympan and an impression made. If there was the desired amount of packing, the sheet was lightly punched or debossed. A second sheet was placed over the first sheet and the process repeated. At some point I think a sheet from the packing would be removed and perhaps later a second, third, etc. Several sheets were used on top of the draw sheet, one at a time, until the desired depth was achieved. There may have been some drying time between sheets. The concept is that the resin would harden and give a satisfactory counter die. I don’t think one could use such a counter for production long runs, but it could work for a few hundred.
It might be fun to play with the project and perhaps reinvent what some old time printer figured out by trial and error.
Or, you could go to the die store and buy a nice die and brass counter all made to your order.

For an explanation and some tips on the embossing process on a platen press see the following …
http://www.briarpress.org/6311