Sequential Numbering on C&P

Hello All,
I am looking for recommendations on the type of numbering heads preferred for a new style C&P. Ones that may also be compatible with a windmill…?

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Hi clayoliff,

I’ve been hoping someone else would post first, but here goes: In our shop, we use mostly Leibinger 10’s and 10L’s on both Heidelbergs and a 12 x 18 Kluge. Kari Freeman, who does our numbering, uses them interchangably. The 10L is a lock-wheel machine. To set the numbers, the form must ordinarily be taken to the stone, the plunger slightly depressed with the end of an old piece of furniture, and the wheels turned with a piece of 6-point lead, a broken pencil, or somesuch while keeping pressure on the plunger. The model 10’s have no lockwheels and can often be set with the form in the press by simply turning the wheels with a piece of lead, etc. The lockwheel machines are necessary on cylinder presses, or if you are having trouble with the form rollers changing the numbers.

These machines have a large sans-serif number. We use mostly 6-wheel machines (000000 - 999999), with “drop-zeroes” in the hundred thousand and ten thousand positions, which can be pushed down to give a machine that runs from 0000 - 9999. At one time, machines were made with low plungers, but it is my understanding that these are no longer made. The “high” plunger machines sometimes hold the rollers off the high numbers close to the plunger, making it necessary to set the rollers lower to insure inking. This in turn increases the scarring on the rollers. If locked up low in the form, they sometimes print on the packing off impression.

The machines are reverse machines. That is, they count down, so that the high number of the job is printed first and is on the bottom.

We also use smaller Leibinger 13L’s and Count Bimatics (which can run forwards or backwards). With some training and experience, the 10’s can be taken apart for cleaning, repairs, changing wheels, etc. Kari does this but I have never tried it. It appears to me to be one of those deals where it’s easy to take apart and hard to reassemble. We also use some center-drive machines, which run off a shaft with a plunger at the other end. This is very useful for forms where the “No.” would otherwise have to be frisketed out. But center drive machines require some way to keep the plunger from printing on the packing, either by frisket or cut-away rollers.

I have always liked Roman number machines, but we don’t ordinarily use them. You may be able to find used machines for $15-25. Forward machines and machines which skip several numbers are also available.

There seems to be great variation in the care of machines. Basically keep them cleaned and oiled. If the wheels are all set to “5”, a needle oiler with clock or sewing machine oil can reach to the shaft of the machine. Too much oil will interfere with inking.

Well, I can think of more, but that’s a start. If you have more questions, I’ll try to answer them. Maybe you’ll get some other posts with other info.

Best regards, Brian

Thanks so much Brian for the fabulous detail. I have spoken to several users and the Leibinger seems very popular. I too like the Roman numerals.
Bests, -Clay

well said brian, one thing i use solid wheel and solid shaft machines for crash numbering when numbering 2, 3 or 4 part forms, if not the machines will wear faster and then the zero don’5 want to print. good luck dick g.

Leibinger 10’s are same as Atlantic 50’s both are great for crash numbering.Leibinger model 20 is still available new it is basically a low plunger 13L. Low plungers are easier on your rollers and usable on cylinder presses. All of my numbering work is trade finishing and Gothic is the norm. Roman is readily available on Ebay or from printer suppliers most often cheaper than Gothic that could make a comeback on limited invitations etc.As to taking apart best to get some instruction take pictures wear magnifier glasses and get some tools small screwdriver, awl dummy holding shafts and pointed plastic to rotate wheel to position number. I think I’ll take some pics and post soon.

There is a common message here: when setting the number wheels, always use a material that is much softer than the steel wheels! Pointed plastic, wood, nylon, lead, zinc, tin, magnesium, or aluminum, whatever. Never use an exacto blade, or hardened steel scribe to turn the number wheels.

A sincere thanks to all posters. Any recommended sources for the Leibingers-Clay

always bought my machines from acme numerico in tewksbury, ma, i think he sells those machines. good luck dick g.