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send us a side view pic…. both open and closed.

Also check to see if the problem is at both the top and bottom, or just the top.

I can’t remember from the 3x5 I had whether the bed can be installed upside down, but I’m sure if it could be it would not function right that way. You might check to be sure you have it right way up and fully seated against the frame.

Bob

(double posting)

I’ll post some side pics but as to the bed being upside down I thought of that but wouldn’t the merl shifts dictate it having to have a right & left side! The pin/ shaft on the right is longer as the arm that controls the inking arm is attached there, the left is short with only enough space for the lever arm that moves the paten. But I’ll try anything & thank you all for coming to my aid! I’m baffled to say the least. I’m brand new to letterpress but have done etchings/ stone lithography for years & have a combo press for that. I was hoping to incorporate the two… Images with type!

Having trouble getting pics up!

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Side views

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Note the shaft sizes.. If I turn the bed around the arm & pins will not match right?

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Top/ bottom spacing seems fairly equal but still have about a heavy 7/8 inch space where it should be well over a inch ( don’t know the specs) but with everything backed off the paten still touches the chase bed…

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Ramblings from afar, probably *Red Herrings* but possibly back to square one.!!!
What are the variables.??? . . As the bed is fixed in time and space via the main frame, the first variable would appear to be the swing of the Platen proper, regardless of the actuating arm (impression handle) the Platen has to work from an Axis shaft, could this be an eccentric replaced out of timing,?
Has the nice new Imp. lever been substituted for a Wrong Font from a later/earlier M/c. that gives too much throw.?
Are the impression screws original and/or correct, do they have flat abutment points or coned/tapered to locate and position the Platen Proper on approach to the Bed/Image.?

Generally on bigger M/c,s with throw of lever, Via a simple eccentric device, (as implied above) the restriction of the travel is normally only in the order of plus/minus 6-9 point.!!
Has the bottom Axis shaft and or bearing alignment point(s) been repaired, welded up, bushed back to standard without being Line Reamered properly, again, generally, the Axis/Fulcrum is the one part that takes the most beating, a few thou wear on the axis, *amplified* to the top of the platen, on impression can be substantial.!!
Are the smaller pegs/shafts, 2 at rear of platen proper, one axis/fulcrum that carries the impression handle, correct eccentric, repaired etc, in your last published shot that axis pin looks a little suspect,!! certainly not located true, apparently.
Apologies if all of the above be rubbish, but just one tiny snippet may help. Good Luck.

Thank you Mick for getting back to me & for putting up a number of ideas as to who might be the culprit. There are absolutely no welds or repairs that have been done.. This I know as I took all parts down to cast iron before priming/painting. As to the shafts/ pins, they were pretty corroded/ gummed up & I polished them up on my drill press & if anything now fit nicely though they do ” travel” as I work the press due to not being flattened on both ends but are not loose or sloppy by any means. Which leads me to believe that either the arm or the platen are not true mates to the original main frame. We’re there changes made over the years do you think to either part that would cause this problem? A slight change forward of the hole for the bottom platen shaft would indeed bring it up closer to the chase frame but why? It would mean revamping the whole machine, castings, etc.. This is a very small machine as far as Kesleys go so to do that would require a whole lot of retooling in my mind. Transmit that to $$$ loss for the Co. Don’t you think? There are dates & perhaps a serial # on the back of the chase but not sure that would help. What I need I think is someone who might be able to date it or send me pics & measurements of another 3 x 5 to compare it with. Perhaps I might be able to take about a 1/8 th inch off the face of the platen on a surface grinder…??? Any thoughts are welcome! Ps.. Platen adjustment screws seem original… And are backed off to just holding by a few threads… Spring is seated as is the paten to the frame…

Are there different models or obvious changes made over the years to the 3 x 5 Kesley letterpress? Any & all info/ photos would be be greatly appreciated so I can at last bring my restoration to a happier ending… Jim

Hello Glosta83
I have 3 x 5 Kelsey that I have not done anything to but oil it. I am located Marlboro MA
please contact me to see if you want to meet and can do a side by side check of the machines (do it all the time with my Kluge) My physical shop location is Framingham.
Glad to help
Ted Lavin
Artificer Press
[email protected]

without seeing this thing is real life, i guess my first question is: was it like this this before tear down? if so, possibly someone prior has repaired with incorrect parts. if it was okay, then improper ass’y has taken place.

OK…. this is an easy one: Even though your platen screws are backed off, the platen has not come back as it should. It’s hanging up on something. Here is what to do:

Remove all of the platen adjustment screws, and see if the platen moves back up against the carrier. Sometimes the lip on the edge of the platen will hang up on the corner of the carrier. Usually a screw driver will correct the situation.

If that doesn’t work, then the platen itself may be upside down. Try turning it 180 degrees.

Finally, look at the big spring that pulls the platen, and make sure that your pin is not hanging up somewhere.

Dave
aka Winking Cat Press

G83,! Thank you for your nod in my direction, appreciated.

My ramblings were no more than that, but I seem to have been corroborated, up to point by far more learned friends
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To elaborate on my efforts just a little, re my Bottom Axis, possible, repair? wear in that situation would/will always be, (if at all) on the lugs on the main frame that are effectively the bearing points, horizontal & fore and aft, taking the pressure and wear from the thrust of the platen on final impression, (applies equally as well from the smallest Table top through to the Biggest Auto Platen, H/berg, Thompson, etc, but they have factored in Sacrificial bearings/Bearing points.!)

In this day and age when DEEP Impression seems to be the norm, expected from M/c,s that were never designed OR intended for such, would calculate that, generally, Steel shaft,s (axis,s) running in Older less Hi-Tech. castings is possibly a bridge too far, and although there may have been no break as such, unless the base of the machine base was mounted and bored *IN LINE* in a machine shop there is no way of keeping the register of the Axis, and the swinging bed synonymous.

I.E. Drilled out & reamed by hand and then bushed back to standard (shaft size) 9 times out of 10 would invariably allow the new hole to wander into the pointed end of the pear shape, = failure.!

As You imply that you are up to speed with dismantle and rebuild, possibly remove the platen & axis, just once more and see if there is ANY evidence of re-bushing in/on the main frame, (if at all) would expect to see either Steel sleeve/insert x 2 or Bronze, Brass/Oilite Bush,s x 2, . . approximately wedding ring size + is there any evidence of Original or even new oil holes x 2, If none at all, it would never be harmful to drill 2, x 1/8” holes, with minute (concave) receptor from the point if 1/4” drill, as original, & as the *out of sight, out of mind* Oil Ports often get over looked, perhaps introduce a tiny felt wick, into the oil hole to act as gradual/sustained oil feed.??
Tiny plugs of felt, standard on British Thompson Auto Platens, i.e. tiny reservoir with capilliary action feeding 15-20 remote oil ports.

Again, Apologies and good luck.

First off, thank you all for coming to my aid with all your thoughts & expertise. I’ll try everything that’s been mentioned to see if they may work. To Ted, I currently live on Long Island but got to CapeAnn ( Gloucester /Rockport) where I grew up & drive right by Framingham on RT 128 so would love to drop by your shop & compare presses if I don’t have a fix.. That would be after Thanksgiving & I see your email on your post. So if ok, I’d like to take you up on it. To Erick, this was pretty much a heap of rust when I found it in a shop in upstate NY but the seller said he knew the person who had owned it prior & used it often.. True? I’m not sure.. Lol! But I do have before after photos of it so maybe a full view shot of it might help. Perhaps a trained eye might catch that slightly off thing. And to winking cat press, I plan on a full attack on the press using your ideas first thing in the morning & that seems to make a whole lot of sense. Thank you very much & I hope it turns out to be so simple. Mick, it’s been a pleasure reading thru your ideas & thoughts.. Your ” ramblings” as you call them & all make very much sense & all are to be considered & applied to the press to see if indeed a modification might have happened.. I’ll start using your felt wick idea as well.. Funny but my litho/ etching press has felt inside the oil pots over each shaft but never thought to applying it to my other presses. Thanks for your input & out of the box approach… I’m grateful to you all. What a great place this is! Thank you all.. Jim

Full view

Front view

Lower view

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Closer front

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Closer front

Closer front

if it don’t work out with Ted, you are welcomed to stop by my shop in Hanson, MA, I have a 3x5 Kelsey made in the 1960s, it is a little different than yours, I also have the same press you have that I too brought back from a rusted mess, I never took mine apart, I know that the newer chases don’t fit too well in the older Kelsey which is what you have, the newer ones have round bar to hold the grippers where the older ones had a square one.

You should use your 5x8 kelsey to teach kids at your art gallery how to print with a letterpress and just sell your 3x5 like this guy:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/171997382378?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid...

“This is a Kesley 3 x 5 letterpress refurbished down to the metal & repainted & shafts, etc.. cleaned, polished & oiled like new. . New rollers/ trucks as well as roller hooks & springs ( all stainless steel). With the press are the original rollers (2 pair) as well as the old roller hooks / springs & clips… There is also 18 pounds of type , font & pt. unknown ( looks like both 14 & 18 pt.) as the boxes & paper they were in had broken apart from age, though the type looks mostly unused. Also some furniture, blanks , flat stock as well as 4 sets of quoins ( no key ) “
Don’t worry about the next sucker who might get hoodwinked out of $500+ for pied type and a press that doesn’t work.
IMHO

I took the advice of winking cat press & took the whole thing apart again. On looking at the platen holder & where the spring sits we globs of paint as well as in the corners , perhaps old ink buildup, etc.. I ground that out with a Drexel & put the whole think back together & now it measures 1 3/16 inches All the way around. I don’t know what it should be but I put some type in the Chase & had to use the adjusting screws & packing paper on the platen & it prints good! I want to thank all of you for helping & offering advice & sorry I don’t know all the terminology yet as to what’s called what. Thanks again! Jim

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Back to the beginning

Starting over again.. And found the issue

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Prior to coming here to ask what was wrong with this press l had put it up for sale thinking it was ok. My fellow artist had prinrted a couple of lines on it but having only used a 5x8 Kesley and then trying to print on this 3x5 I realized it wasn’t working properly so came here for advice. After taking it apart again I’ve gained on it & printed but it doesn’t seem to do that ” click” like the 5x8 but does print ok. My question is this… Is this the norm for the 3x5.. To come up somewhat solid to the type unlike the 5x8 ? I’m totally new to letterpress & had hoped to sell this smaller press along with a Chraftman press we acquired ( that works great..) in order to buy supplies, etc…to have classes & make cards, etc.. Right now I have plenty of clearance between the chase & paten & printing but as I said it doesn’t perform like the larger. Should I not sell this press? I don’t want to have someone buy it & find out it’s not like typical 3x5s… I had it already up for sale before actually trying it myself but will remove it for sale if you think it’s not working right. Anyone with a Kesley 3x5 that prints on it would surely be of help… Plenty seems to be written on the 5x8 & larger but I can’t find much of anything on this one. And I don’t want to discourage anyone that might have bought it to end up frustrated … Like me! Lol… Jim

I’ve printed twice using type & had to use 4-5 pcs of backer paper on the paten… A far cry from just one before trying adjustments recommended here… I also printed a image as well from a woodblock but that was tighter but the image came out nice though I had to back the screws on the paten way back & just 2 pcs of paper… Would you say that’s about average for the 3x5? Currently the space between the paten & chase bed measures 1- 3/16th inches… That’s one & 3/16 inches… Is that typical?

G 83. General ramblings from afar which may or may not help.!… here U.K. we see Small Tabletops mainly Adana,s but some Ajax, a few Squintani,s etc… .the Adana,s come in a wide range of sizes 3 x 2, 5 x 3, 6 x 4, 8 x 5, and occassionally H.S. 3 (my favourite) which is 8 1/2” x 5 1/2” to print and view.
In every case, across the range and where practical we Pack the Platen thus;- (either cut D.I.Y. from 3 sheet board/card,) or off the shelf (expensive?) die-cut ready made Primary packing, on the Platen, and then composite packing up to height with News print, Blotting paper, 2/3 sheets of stock, being printed, and top-sheet Oiled Manilla, not essential but desireable, if only for wiping down with a misprint, and dusting with french chalk,!!!

Equalizing the impression? several ways, already well documented, but as the impression screws are, generally, coarse thread and tricky at the best of times, (for fine adjustments) we frequently help/advise new devotees to use 4 Engineers type Feeler Guages @ .001/.002” between the tip/top of the adjuster(s) and the 4 contact points at the rear of the Platen, hopefully having marked where all 4 originated from, OR truing up the 4 contact points.

Generally impression screws at the point of abutment are originally flat to flat, but time and wear takes it,s toll! on inspection do you have any obvious concave wear marks.??

Here U.K. where possible/practical as a matter of course, When bringing a machine back from jaws of oblivion, we drill the 4 points with a drill especially sharpened to a very shallow rake and just match the 4 Impression screws to match, Off the shelf from our engineer suppliers + (principle borrowed from ???) file a tiny slot in the head & rake, of the new Imp.,screw to act as an oil track.

Again (borrowed and adapted from the felt underlay on Common Press,s etc) frequently use as Primary Packing sheet of Litho blanket, very accurate (thickness) rubber face/canvas back, in essence does the same job for Tiny letter press, as on big litho,s

Again, thanks Mick for all the info you’ve passed my way. This will be the end of these little presses for me, but do love so far working on the 5x 8. As I had mentioned before I’m a printmaker but being introduced to letterpress has been fun & ive found it almost magical in both method & history. And just about a month ago never knew of it, but now addicted to it. I hope to incorporate both etchings/ lithos with the type.. Poems, sayings with images.. I love working on my litho stones & get that same vibe with these beautiful letters, fonts… Be well & again, thank you for your kindness & knowledge. Jim

people might? be intrested in this hand operated hydraulic press recently on the market?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2aVL0glcsw

Glosta83 (Jim) *Nil Desperandum* or put another way, Mothball the Little Table Top but do not abandon completely.
Guarantee You will find in the not too distant future that it will turn into a valuable additional asset, as a compliment to your other ventures, most of us have already made those mistakes, disbanding, scrapping, AND eventually regretting.!!!

1 or 2, examples, The baby L/press M/c. in the corner, more than capable of overprinting one line, even one word, or just one blank 6 point x 6 em, Rule when Fax, E Mail, etc has to be Blanked out, rather than sacrifice many bulk copies.!! Or even ONE spot, second colour, short run etc.!

Hand feeding to overprint, say, business cards that have
been produced in bulk, 64 UP, (or more) on a big *LITHO* perfector, with a small percentage left blank for the new Reps names numbers etc.

* * * * *

Spent several weeks in Kenya, (photographic Safari Hols) on the odd free day, in the Back streets of Nairobi & Mombasa, just HAD to investigate the sounds of Printing Machinery running, the works Doorway & The Printers always said welcome.!!

Some amazing conversation,s picking each others brains, but tying in with the basis of the above, i.e. keeping some Letterpress, appeared so obvious, to them, when we remarked that here in the U.K. we had scrapped virtually all of our Big letterpress cylinders and were/are having to scour many African states and buy back L.press cylinders.
Mainly H/bergs, with Jungles growing out of them, to be refurbished as Cutting/Creasing machines.

They, the Guys, did not have to say, it but the little grins implied, HOW could we be so short sighted.

For the space involved (if possible) keep the little M/c.handy. Good luck. Mick.

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