gripper timing
I have a kluge model N from about 1937 that still prints nicely and the timing of the gripper bars is set to open and close perfectly for hand feeding just like the C&P craftsman next to it. I have another Kluge model N from about 1933 that has all of the automatic feed removed from it but the timing of the grippers is still set for automatic operation, so when the platen returns to the almost horizontal postion when you would want to remove the printed sheet and load the next sheet, there is a delay in the opening of the grippers so that I have to run the press very slowly to get things done. Other then that it is a very smooth running press.
I can see the difference in the cams that operate the gripper bars on the two presses but I don’t have any instructions or experience in disassembling the guts of this kind of euipment.
To fix this problem I would need to rotate the cam a few degrees so that the gripper bar actuator slides into the “flat” of the cam earlier. I don’t know if it is actually possible to rotate the cam or if a new one would need to be created or if I could simply grind a new surface on the cam right where it is without doing any disassembly but I’m very motivated to figure this out. I hate having a machine that I can’t use to it’s full potential. And I have both types of cams right here to study the differences.
I have seen a few posts from different folks in different places and times over the last few years wondering about this same issue and noting that even the last few equipment providers no longer sell these parts, and I’m wondering if anyone has resolved the problem and would share their experience or if someone else, with some machinery experience, is interested in applying logic and expertise to this issue.
Thanks
Bruce
My Kluge is from about 1933 also, i hand feed it every once in a while, if it isn’t a heavy form i just remove the grippers, if the paper wants to stick to the form then i will run the press slowly and use the grippers.
you could probably find a machine shop to “re-arc” the gripper cam for you to match the old one, or at least, make it better. there may also be a difference in the head cam itself. can’t quite remember that part. where are you?
the gripper cam should come off by simply removing a snap ring on the end of the stud. you may have to remove the op side side arm. DON’T forget to release the spring(s) that pull on the gripper bar first. (holding the roller to the cam)
I am in Landover, Md
I’m trying to locate the snap rings you mentioned but I don’t see any snap rings anywhere on the ends or in the parts list.There is a machine shop nearby, but if I can figure out how to take it apart myself that could save alot of dollars. I am posting a picture of the stud end which shows what looks like a large screw head on the end of the side arm, but I’m not sure what’s on the cam housing.
cam.jpg
Bruce, (if you Woz Oz, could probably say “G,Day Mate”) otherwise “Howdy Partner” or “have A nice Day!!” Looks as though you may have slightly conflicting references, I. E. the stub that carries your shaft/rod will almost certainly be factory fitted, interference fit ex factory, and as there is virtually no side thrust on the pictured washer, there would be no need for a circlip, (snap ring etc) but as of a long time ago and still now, good assembly practise, when assembling such important! retaining collar, would have been used (possibly) TREADLOCK, or U.S.A. equivelant, small tube, containing blue liquid with 2/3 drops per bolt, on assembly!!! This ensures secure fitting and although is NOT permanent, does require care with subsequent removal, therefore as the screwdriver slot is “A” just a little >modified< already and needs care to remove, And “B” because it is possibly tight, ex factory, and requires a little care for removal, would suggest, screwdriver of adequate blade width/thickness, and preferably the type of screwdiver that incorpoates a spanner fitting at the base of the handle. So if it is tight, and to save slipping out, one hand and body weight applying pressure in (with Safety) and spanner to unscrew, if it should prove stubborn, few taps on screw head with Brass/Copper drift. One more (with apologies) usually shafts/connecting rods, as pictured were normally ground/machined for long life and wear, removal, normally requires delicate, exactly simultaneous; end to end! removal???
this is the cam i am talking about. your pic shows the “head cam”. it can be ground if you know how to do it. it is most easily done on the press, difficult yes, but can be done. i am talking about the “gripper cam”.
you could remove the head cam but it is dangerous on these old presses as they can crack in half. they are heated then beaten off with a sledge hammer.
IMG_20130708_111421_809.jpg
I dont know this machine but i would suggest that you check to see if the cams roller has an eccentric pin in the centre of the roller bearing ,this would be extremely likely in the case of something that is timed in the way these things are.
The lack of id in the manual does not mean it isnt there ,the manual for a machine is meant to aid the operator not the engineers who set them up .
I put this up only because i find it difficult to believe there is no adjuster at all .Especially if there is a detachable feeder this would imply there is an adjuster , no one would build a machine of such adaptability without one . that being said the clue would be how do you revert back to the other setting now you have altered the cam??
Could you not just fit a smaller or larger bearing roller to the appropriate part rather than irreversibly alter the cam itself, surely that would be easier,cheaper and quicker .
OK so Ernest noticed that the two press are running in opposite directions so now we are trying to reverse the one with the timing problem. It’s an old 220 volt single phase motor and didn’t change when we reversed the wires. Now looking to find a schematic from the manufacturer to see if it will reverse and how to.
that should change things dramatically. op side fly wheel turns CCW.
Removed as incorrect , apologies.
Peter,
I hope Monotype Mick is watching this one, what you just said about the role of capacitors in AC motors is terribly misleading and entirely wrong, but I’m not in a position (going in and out of cell coverage) to correct you on the subject right now!
Keelan, I did point out I am not an electrician and to talk to an electrician however i was consulting with someone as you were reading it . You are correct that its misleading and for obvious reasons have removed it , Especially as i dont like paying damages!
Generalizations, Not Specifics, as applied to Single phase Motors, in U.K. Capacitors cover a whole spectrum in single phase use! As I understand can be used in starting, running, or both and for continuos cycle, etc. As it has been described to me, start capacitors absorb the initial surge on starting, to protect trips and fuses, and then are no longer in use, in running! Once again, changing the rotation, (at least in U.K. on 240 Volts with only (one) ! live wire at 50 cycles) is normally achieved, NOT by altering the input wires, but by, in 95 % of cases by altering 2 links within the mains input box on the motor itself, the links/straps normally in the configuration of 2 vertical or 2 horizontal links, altered from horizontal to vertical or vice versa. The start capacitor can often be accomodated on these links and will normally appear on the schematic diagram under the lid of the junction box. A small tutorial on the American methods (with your 2 hot legs at 220 volts!) would be welcome and appreciated, if possible please?
OK, no update yet for reversing the motor, still tying to find someone with the required knowledge. There is an old mechanic nearby that we hope will be able to fix. If not we will get a new motor.
We have figured out though that reversing the press direction turns the timing on these presses from auto feed into hand feed timing. There is no need for any different cam or adjustment of any kind.
Now we don’t use an ink fountain or any other gear on our presses so I can’t say that reversing the direction won’t cause some unwanted effect for some presses, but we have four Brandtjen & Kluge models N, NA, NB and three of them have their flywheels turning with the top of the wheel towards the operator for more than twenty years without ill effects. I have seen automatics running and they all go the other way. So my practical theory is that someone figured this out for this shop a long time ago and that this last press must have come here later and no one ever changed it.
I will update you on the motor as soon as we resolve that issue. Thank you for your help
We found a fellow who knows alot about motors and he set us right. This is an induction motor made before 1964. To reverse the motor the wiring stays the same but the brushes must be moved. He said to look for 3 lines which we found on the round metal plate that supports the brushes. Line # 1 lines up with a mark on the housing. There are 2 screws on the outside of the housing which hold this metal plate. Removed the 2 screws and the metal plate/brush assembly rotates so that the marks line up on mark # 3. That’s all there is to it. The press is now running in reverse and the gripper timing is perfect for hand feeding. I like it!